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They work but it seems like I get more effective stopping power when I actuate the brake pedal as a series of motions rather as one motion.

Am I low on brake fluid? Do I need to bleed the system? Are my brakes shoes too far gone and this extensive braking effort is how I'm compensating?

Any wisdom on the subject would be appreciated!

Sounds like they're just out of adjustment, and you're needing to pump them out to the drum at first. If you have the wheels off though, you might as well bleed them as well.

Mine experiences the same issue, I adjusted the shoes and it got better, but I'm still thinking on mine that it could be the master cylinder.

I'm still getting used to the quirks of the Pinz, so I havn't bothered swapping it out yet though.

Pinzgauers are NOT famous for their robust brakes. This is even more apparent with my 5300 lb. 712 versus my "light weight" 4800 lb. 710!

I'll check the brakes and perhaps they can be further adjusted into submission.

texas pinzgauer wrote:Pinzgauers are NOT famous for their robust brakes. This is even more apparent with my 5300 lb. 712 versus my "light weight" 4800 lb. 710!

I'll check the brakes and perhaps they can be further adjusted into submission.

Funny I found my 712M stops better than my buddies 710 I attributed it to the 712 having an extra set of brakes on the 3rd axle maybe it just my are adjusted better.

Mopar,

Perhaps 712 brakes are overkill when empty, because I too find my brakes to be adequate. Not exceptional, but very adequate. I can fully lock them up. But I don't overrun them.


Texas,

In 5+ years of Pinzgauer ownership, I've never posted anything that's gotten such strong responses.

When I said "rules to live by" I was only talking in broad strokes about strongly suggesting that while these trucks are very robustly built and fairly bullet proof, in my opinion, I think it's critical for maintenance intervals to be strictly adhered to. Stated differently, do what's required when it's required.

Not rippin' ya too hard, but brake adjustments are, or should be, part of the maintenance. I do them every time I rotate the tires. Just add it to your list.

Pumping the pedal works the shoes out further with each pump; this is because the shoes are not close enough to the drum, or (especially on new shoes) they have not worn to conform to the shape of the drum, and the shoes are flexing a bit. There is a restrictor in the lines just under the master cylinder that lets the fluid come back from the wheels at a slower rate then can be pushed out -- this is why "pumping" works the shoes out further with each pump; there just isn't enough time for the fluid to retract before your next pump.

I have found out the hard way that to properly adjust the shoes you need to jack up the wheel, remove the tire, re-install two or three lugnuts to hold the drum on tight, and then do the adjustment. If you do not hold the drum on tightly with a few lugnuts the the adjustment will not always be correct.

Expand the shoes until you feel them drag against the drum when you rotate the drum by hand, then back off on the adjusters by about three teeth. The brake pedal will seem to hardly move before you get plenty of braking force and a hard pedal that is nowhere near the floor.

Since the front axle does 70% of the braking force, the front brakes need adjusting more often then the rears (I adjust the fronts 1-2 times per year, the backs every third time or so). This makes the job go faster most of the time. I know to adjust the brakes when I start feeling the need to pump the pedal.

If the pedal feels "springy" then you probably have air in the lines that is compressing and pushing back, hence the springy feeling. Properly bled lines make the pedal hard, fast.

All good ideas and observations folks, thanks!

A regular brake adjustment is all it took so I once again have brakes! Thanks for the guidance.

Searching does work!!

My truck is doing the same thing....a quick pump and full braking is restored...an adjustment was on my list of things to do anyway.

I apologize for the stupid question, but the adjustments on my Iltis' drums could be done without removing the tire and simply jacking each wheel. I have read the manuals, and followed the procedure in getting the wheel off, but (and this is where it gets dumb), should the handbrake, 4x4 and lockers all be engaged when checking the drums? Seems like they should be off because I really get no spin on the drum.

Correct, parking brake off, differentials dis-engaged. YOU MUST CHOCK THE OTHER TIRES or risk your truck rolling off the jack and over you!!!

Correct, parking brake off, differentials dis-engaged.

And out of gear (in neutral). On a 712 you need to raise both rear wheels (on the same side, usually) to allow one wheel to rotate - since the rear axles are tied together, keeping one axle on the ground will prevent motion which will prevent a single wheel on the other rear axle from rotating.

Since the brake adjusting port is on the outside face of the Pinz brake drum, the stock wheels must be removed to access them unlike most auto drum brakes where the adjustments were done through the backing plate and the wheel could be left on.

That is what I figured. Thanks guys!

I adjust mine every other oil change or about 6K miles. The fronts are the tricky ones with the dual adjusters. I always take the drum off and inspect to see if I need to adjust one adjuster more than the other. My adjustments are done with all the wheels in the air as I am usually checking other things at the same time.
These trucks are about as reliable as it gets but they do like to have a regular looking over on a regular basis. While you are at it grease those drivelines. I can not tell you how many we find that are bone dry and getting sloppy at the splines. There are not that many grease zerks on a pinz and yet they gave us a grease gun in the tool kit, that should tell you something.