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I was wondering if you experienced Pinz wheelers could offer some advice to a 4wheeling Newbie. I have no experience in anything other than my Ural, so nothing with 4 wheels. I am always going out with jeeps and other trucks with more articulation than the Pinz, not to mention power steering, but when I follow them, I don't do as well. I am convinced the Pinz has its own line, I just don't know how to follow it properly. I know a lot of it is me too.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how my line should differ from a jeep? I know the terrain varies, but any suggestions would help.

Berger

First off, use your lockers! I’ve seen too many plow through until they get stuck, then start flipping lockers on. Tread lightly, and go slow. It is not a contest to see who can go the furthest in 2wd. 4WD with a little power will get you farther and do less damage to the trails than 1WD with a lot of power ( and face it, without the lockers, a Pinz s 1WD) . Air down your tires, the larger footprint gives you more traction. Pinzes will also be on 2 wheels at time due to the lack of articulation… develop your pucker power. Also have your lockers lock… because when you’re on 2 wheels, all your power is going to the air… and there isn’t much traction with air( and the puckering won't help either) .
And to avoid joining the ITO club ( I tipped over), drive slower on the “smooth” trails too. A few Pinzers have rolled because of the truck bouncing and hit a pothole that drops a corner enough to roll them. They are narrow and tall. What line to take takes experience and watching other Pinzes.

And sometimes, you just don't want to follow that Jeep

come visit Colorado, the Jeep will not want to follow you (unless heavily modified).

RMP Treffen 3rd week in July. 2013 will be held in Leadville, CO.

It'll put the lead in your pencil

well the first thing we try to get across to new pinz drivers is "don't avoid the obstacle" By this I mean don't try to go around something. Use the pinz to its fullest. You have way more ground clearance and can go over far more things than you think. I have seen many join the ITO simply because they did not want to go into a hole, so they tried to skirt the edge. This simply put them on their side. It is best to start getting a feeling for what the pinz can do. I would suggest starting by learning to climb and descend shelves. The side angles will come in later once you are comfortable with its ability to go up and down. If you can visualize the line that keeps all the tires on the ground most of the time you will do well. In most cases the jeep line is not the 4x pinz line and none of them are the 712's line. There are few trails that a mildly modified jeep can do that a pinz won't handle. Of course it may put the pinz in some odd angles and not all drivers are comfortable at the different angles.
Experience is what it will take to get used to the characteristics of the pinz but learn them slowly.

Wear sturdy shoes or boots, sometimes it can be a challenge getting in and out of a Pinz even off road.

David Dunn wrote:First off, use your lockers! I’ve seen too many plow through until they get stuck, then start flipping lockers on. Tread lightly, and go slow. It is not a contest to see who can go the furthest in 2wd. 4WD with a little power will get you farther and do less damage to the trails than 1WD with a lot of power ( and face it, without the lockers, a Pinz s 1WD) . Air down your tires, the larger footprint gives you more traction. Pinzes will also be on 2 wheels at time due to the lack of articulation… develop your pucker power. Also have your lockers lock… because when you’re on 2 wheels, all your power is going to the air… and there isn’t much traction with air( and the puckering won't help either) .
And to avoid joining the ITO club ( I tipped over), drive slower on the “smooth” trails too. A few Pinzers have rolled because of the truck bouncing and hit a pothole that drops a corner enough to roll them. They are narrow and tall. What line to take takes experience and watching other Pinzes.

And sometimes, you just don't want to follow that Jeep

Thanks for the tips David! Ya, I learned to use the lockers on my first excursion. As soon as I came up on an obstacle that I thought would require the lockers, I engaged them. Funny you should mention those who "plow through." One guy told me you shouldn't engage anything until you need it.....I kept him to my rear!

Pucker power is definitely something I am working on...I now keep a towel handy, just to wipe the sweat that seems to drip profusely from my brow in certain moments!

Winter Beater wrote:come visit Colorado, the Jeep will not want to follow you (unless heavily modified).

RMP Treffen 3rd week in July. 2013 will be held in Leadville, CO.

It'll put the lead in your pencil

I wish I could get out there...even as a passenger. One day!

4x4Pinz wrote:well the first thing we try to get across to new pinz drivers is "don't avoid the obstacle" By this I mean don't try to go around something. Use the pinz to its fullest. You have way more ground clearance and can go over far more things than you think. I have seen many join the ITO simply because they did not want to go into a hole, so they tried to skirt the edge. This simply put them on their side. It is best to start getting a feeling for what the pinz can do. I would suggest starting by learning to climb and descend shelves. The side angles will come in later once you are comfortable with its ability to go up and down. If you can visualize the line that keeps all the tires on the ground most of the time you will do well. In most cases the jeep line is not the 4x pinz line and none of them are the 712's line. There are few trails that a mildly modified jeep can do that a pinz won't handle. Of course it may put the pinz in some odd angles and not all drivers are comfortable at the different angles.
Experience is what it will take to get used to the characteristics of the pinz but learn them slowly.

Excellent advice, thanks! I haven't been running anything too hairy yet, but I have found that what the Jeeps and Blazers have to crawl onto and over, I can just drive over, which is confidence boosting for sure. I am definitely taking it slow, and a Daredevil I am not, but I do love off-roading with this truck!

edzz wrote:Wear sturdy shoes or boots, sometimes it can be a challenge getting in and out of a Pinz even off road.

Gotcha....leave the flip flops at home!

4x4Pinz wrote:well the first thing we try to get across to new pinz drivers is "don't avoid the obstacle" By this I mean don't try to go around something. Use the pinz to its fullest. You have way more ground clearance and can go over far more things than you think. I have seen many join the ITO simply because they did not want to go into a hole, so they tried to skirt the edge. This simply put them on their side. It is best to start getting a feeling for what the pinz can do. I would suggest starting by learning to climb and descend shelves. The side angles will come in later once you are comfortable with its ability to go up and down. If you can visualize the line that keeps all the tires on the ground most of the time you will do well. In most cases the jeep line is not the 4x pinz line and none of them are the 712's line. There are few trails that a mildly modified jeep can do that a pinz won't handle. Of course it may put the pinz in some odd angles and not all drivers are comfortable at the different angles.
Experience is what it will take to get used to the characteristics of the pinz but learn them slowly.

Mike and others
OK I am now curious about this. I know you own both a 710 and a 712. My 4x was a blast to wheel, it was not to hard to adapt my old toyota skills to the different abilities of a pinz.
Now with a 712 I have not done much wheeling yet, just logging roads to get back to an area with my Boyscouts or to do some shooting. I do plan on heading up to Evens Creek in 3 weeks with it. So I am just curious what part of your mind set is differnet when you take 6x out? what do you do differently when finding you line?
This is not ment to be a hi-jack, this topic will be more valuable in a search if we account for both types.

enjoy the scenery more with the 712. The 712 is a point and shoot truck by comparison to the 710. If you are looking to find a more adventurous line with the 712 then you would look for lines where there are large cracks or gaps as the 712 will span those and make them look so easy compared to any brand of 4x truck. One note on the 712 is when going over steep shelves. The 712 will go vertical before a 710 as the wheel base between the mid axle and front is much shorter than the 710's. this is fun in that is puts a little fun factor into the wheeling. Even though the 712 goes vertical sooner it feels more stable than the 710.
As far as lockers go in the 712, the combinations are very important compared to the usage of the 710. I don't lock up my front in most cases until the very last moment. Steering in a 712 with the fronts locked is difficult to say the least. With the back locked it is trying to push you forward all the time anyway and then locking the front just makes it that much more difficult. there are times when just locking the front in a 712 is preferred. when in deeper sand for example, try just locking the front in and watch what happens. At Glamis this is how I run my 712 all the time. The four rear tires provide enough floatation that locking them only inhibits the turning ability.
In both trucks you can use your lockers to make some exceptionally sharp turns if the conditions are right. If you lock the front and turn the truck so the (rear tire in the 710 or the mid tire 712) make contact with an obstacle, the truck will slide around the obstacle. Very handy when in heavy boulder situations or tight trails.

One of the biggest pieces of advice I can give is to pay attention to the truck and its behavior when out wheeling. Pay attention to how it responds to different situations and remember how and what happened. In most cases you can use these funny little quirks at a different time to get through other obstacles.

berger wrote:I was wondering if you experienced Pinz wheelers could offer some advice to a 4wheeling Newbie. I have no experience in anything other than my Ural, so nothing with 4 wheels. I am always going out with jeeps and other trucks with more articulation than the Pinz, not to mention power steering, but when I follow them, I don't do as well. I am convinced the Pinz has its own line, I just don't know how to follow it properly. I know a lot of it is me too.

Do you guys have any suggestions on how my line should differ from a jeep? I know the terrain varies, but any suggestions would help.

Berger

Buy a Unimog
Don't ban me!!

Interesting discussion here. I had limited off-roading experience before buying my 710M but once I took it out on our local trails, I learned via trial and error how to get through "sketchy" patches off road. The 710 was more nimble as it was smaller than my current 712. In either case, when I've been out with Jeep owners, the comments I get now when we're spotting each other is typically along the lines of, "dude, you need to at least look like you're trying".

Stated differently, the Pinz is able to work itself through spots when the Jeeps are struggling to make it through in one piece and upright.

Trial and error and time and you'll get there Berger.

These things are top heavy, try to keep that in mind and you'll stay on your wheels.

I came from offroading subarus, (yes subarus) and those are wider then they are tall so the Pinz is a very different experience for me.

The front locker on off camber stuff will pull the front, often in unanticipated directions, I've been over once, and I think some of it had to do with the front locker, although most of it had to do with me

Last thing, Rule Numero UNO!
If there are a bunch of people standing around an obstacle, rocks/puddle/hill it probably means that anyone who trys it will fail spectacularly, so be careful and don't let pride break you or your rig.

Watch those thumbs too! If you're headed into an obstacle or series of rough spots, be attentive to the steering wheel suddenly jerking in an unanticipated direction. After the first tme this happens, you won't let it happen again.