Questions about tying down a pinz on a trailer

[LibTimothy]

Greetings wise and intelligent Pinzgauers owners.

I have a question about putting a Pinz on a trailer. When I first brought my Pinz home, I tied it down with straps that I wrapped around the axles.





I plan to put it on a trailer again and want to look at better ways to tie it down. Where would YOU strap the Pinz down? I was thinking that big hooks like tow trucks use, might be better than just wraping the straps over the axles. Would that be secure enough? Could I or should I weld on some D rings? If so, where would I weld them?

Any expert ideas out there?

Many thanks!

Timothy

[Tads]

Your tiedown scheme looks pretty sensible from here - it looks like you're going round the axles just outboard of the spring pivot bolts so the straps can't pull into towards the centre of the vehicle, is this correct?

If you want to weld on some loops I'd suggest copying what the diesel Pinz have - loops are welded onto the cup at the end of each chassis "butterfly" - the extensions from the centre tube that go out to the body mount bolts.



You can see them on the picture above - there's also now additional points welded to the extensions from the centre tube that hold the leaf spring bogie pivot which aren't shown on this picture.



This picture shows the two forward points that are welded to the t-bar.

Of course even though there's now 10 tiedown loops on the chassis, the haulage company still straps them down over the tyres!

Tom

[David Dunn]

I use the outriggers to secure my Pinz to the trailer. It compresses the suspension, and takes away any sway that the body may have from the road. also, care must be taken wrapping tiedowns around the axle to avoid damage to the brake lines.

Where this pics shows the chain and hooks used, I also have a set of J hooks that I use through the same locations


I would not use eyes on the front extension of a 710/12... The TDs have different type of door lock ( antiburst) than the gassers (slam locks). Tying down from the front extension ( or pintle) will tweek the front body's metalwork and can pop the doors open.

Dave Dunn

[mjnims]

I went with these axle tie down straps.
http://www.qmpracing.com/qmpcatalog/pop ... 71aedada27
They have worked out very well. I tow my Pinzies and other MV's a bunch and found the chain through the central tube supports eventually started wearing things funny. The axle straps don't seem to be as harsh on the pinz under carriage. I use chains with ratchet tightners and have never had an issue.
What ever method you settle on just make sure the straps, chains, cables are all kept in good working order, this is not the place to go cheap.

[Pinz Enthusiast]

Timothy,

Like Dave says looks pretty good though I have tied my 712 down usint the front outriggers like in Dave's pictures and for the rear I go over the rear outrigger, (between the wheels) this is very sturdy and like youshow in your pics make sure you cross the straps, also since I just got myself some straps do like Mike posted and get the short axle straps and use the "J" hooks, makes for a much quicker tie down, I for one am tired of using chains.

[Jimm391730]

Notice that in Timothy's picture of the crossed tie downs, although they do a great job of anchoring the truck to the trailer so it can't move forward, back, or to either side, the truck could (relatively) easily tip right off the trailer. Tied down like this, the truck in the video would have flipped right off the trailer.

The problem is that if the truck started to tip, the wheel that lifts is not trying to stretch the strap further - in fact, it looks like the strap may even loosen if those wheels leave the trailer.

If they didn't cross so far (as if the straps came together at/near the center tube or outriggers) the truck would be as securely held AND resist tipping off the trailer.

My $0.02 worth.

Jim M.

[David Dunn]

To elaborate on why I secure to the frame and compress the suspension when hauling on a trailer. you need to look at the complete "towing package". Where typical professional tow services use rollback tow trucks to haul cars, these vehicles will weigh at least 1 1/2 times that of the car they are hauling, when the hauling rig crosses bad road or dips, the hauled car's suspension will also react to the road ( if secured by the axles or tires, leaving the suspension free to move...bounce). This motion on a significantly heavier flatbed is dampen quite a bit. Whereas if this vehicle is on a trailer secured the same way. a typical trailer may weigh from 1500 to 2000 lbs, and once a heavy vehicle on a lighter trailer starts to bounce, it will cause the trailer to bounce accordingly, and once out of sync, anything can happen. Higher speeds will also accelerate this action. The video of the trailered Mog shows this, though a couple other items probably contributed also. But you can clearly see the Mog and the trailer are working against each other.

Dave Dunn

[Anthony]

I agree, lashing must also attach to the body to partially compress the springs. This prevents the trailered vehicle and suspension from becoming excited and pogo-ing off the trailer or even bouncing the trailer over with it. Also a looking at the image of the straps i would suggest that if any one strap becomes loose then it will make the other straps redundant also, In effect all the straps are working against one another in a system, which is fine so long as they always have equal tension. Also the strap length is long. Attention has been mainly concentrated on for and aft movement of the trailered vehicle and lateral but practically none in the vertical plane.


Essentially one must consider what forces are likely to be at play and then arrange any strapping to act as closely to where that imaginary line of force might act. Usually folk use to few straps arranged at large angles away from where any force is most likely to act. It is a wonder that more trailer accidents do not occur

[undysworld]

I'm sitting here reading this when I should be doing other things, but I felt like I'd add my $.02 worth.

I've never towed my Pinz, but I did tow a large bobcat many miles a few years back. We always saved the HUGEST chain for tethering the rear end of the bobcat (pinz) to the back of the trailer. That way, in the event of a frontal collision, the vehicle on the trailer was LESS LIKELY to break loose and come forward hitting us.

My only concern in tethering down the sprung body, is that as the trailer bounces and the Pinz atop it also bounces, sometimes these straps/chains/ can loosen up. It does seem desirable to limit this bouncing by tethering the truck at body mount points. But I wonder if this should be the only tethers.

Some vehicles are trailered by securing the tire/wheels to the trailer, with straps that run up and over the tires. This would be somewhat similar to tethering over the axles. But then I agree with the previous posts that the straps should not cross over one another, but rather be shorter and go more or less straight down to the trailer.

I always assumed I would be losing control of my truck and going into the ditch with the bobcat attached. Worst case scenario. So I strapped it down as if that was going to happen. People thought I was nuts, but I figured better safe than sorry and I never had a problem.

Obviously, there are several differing views of this!!

[LibTimothy]

Well, I learned more about trailering in these posts than I ever expected.

Let me summarize and see if I learned the lessons correctly.

My tie downs were good because they were placed outboard of the spring pivot bolts so the straps could not move to the center (and become loose?). My straps are crossed, but would be better if they were crossed closer to the center of the Pinz (more leverage when the Pinz starts to tip?). I should attach them to the outriggers ranther than the alxes. Also, I have ignored the Z direction, so I should add tied downs the compress the springs so that the body does not set up a bouncing motion. (Don't want to be like that Mog owner .)

There are D rings on newer models, but I probably could do fine without them. Also alxe tie down straps add to the convienence. No matter what I am towing, I should stop often just to test the straps. More straps couldn't hurt.

Anything I missed?

Thanks everyone!

Timothy

[Erik712m]

I would say i learned a lot as well i have never trailered my pinz. but if i would have i probly would have straped it on the front pintle

[David Dunn]

Don't assume anything regarding the 716/18 build. They didn't have any of the "extra" tiedowns. The outriggers are the same as the 710/12 ( I don't have my parts manual handy to verify this). My pic above is of the rear outrigger on the Pink Cow. The 2 welded on plates with eyes on the front tube extension weren't on all TDs, but one that I plan to add to mine for trailering tiedowns, so I don't need to crawl as far under to secure hooks. Some of the mods seen on 716/18 Pinzes were done for the MOD, and are not part of the standard build.
For the last 2 plus years or so, the Pinzgauer website has on it pics of current manufactured trucks...prior to that, the Automotive Technik site use pics of the then current truck and those dating back to th P80s and P90s, made in the mid '80s and through the '90s ( made by SDP ).

As for tying down from the outriggers, use a "V" for straps instead of crossing them.

With over 6 1/2 years of owning the Pink Cow, you can bet I've soaked up every bit of info on the 716/18s that I can.

Dave Dunn

[Tads]

Dave,

You are quite right. The 716/718 don't have all the tiedowns I've described. These were mostly implemented on the 758 series for UK MoD by SDP and extra points added for the later EUROIII vehicles by ATL/Pinzgauer.

Tom

[rivervoog]

A very useful post. I will be trailering my pinz to moab mid may for a few days of wheeling had been planning on straping down using the front pintle and the rear hitch. Now I think I will use the outriggers. kevin