Disk Brakes

jacksonpinz · Post by **jacksonpinz** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:15 am

My new Pinz should be here on Monday. I am new to these boards and I am sure this subject has been brought up before, but has anyone ever put disk brakes on thier Pinz? Living in the Rockies and travelling over mountain passes, I think disks would be great. Less fade, better stopping power and no loss of braking when wet. I guess because I own a large bus company I am always thinking about safety although I am sure the drums are fine but I have a lot of faith in disk brakes. Thanks for bearing with me as a newbie!

lindenengineering · Post by **lindenengineering** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:24 am

It has been looked at I can assure you by several parties including us at Linden.

Fundamentally the problem arises out of the design where the wheel is closely wrapped around the existing drum. If you look at the Steyr design for their foundation brakes on later models you will see they use a twin caliper set up on the fronts to obtain the required braking efficiency.
The last time I looked at grafting some of this design onto either model (710/712M) such as yours the cost was in excess of $15000 for parts alone!

So the answer I suppose is manufacture something over here to accomodate the request you might say. Yes fine it can be done. However the final judgement is based upon who will pay for the R&D? Oh, I could build it into the cost of the end product but then no one would want to buy the kit!

Judging by the banter on this board Jake Raby has run into this small but significant issue with his EFI modifications. The other thing arises and that is the issue of product liability. It's one thing to supply factory parts, but something entirely different to manufacture a whole new system and eat the cost of R&D, initial manufacture and the ongoing liability coverage.
I hate to be blunt but there are a significant number of Pinz owners that are as tight as drums when it comes to maintenance/repairing their vehicles so why should there be any any change of general attitude to the prospect of a disc brake conversion be any different when it comes to recuperating the costs of providing such a conversion.

A long time ago I was asked to do a semi auto conversion on a 710M, I made the mistake of wasting (sorry investing my valuable time) into selection of a suitable transmission (Auto gearbox), modifying it to full shifter/speed control and then providing the "up kit" for the modification/install. When the end cost was evaluated the owner was mortified, he was under the understanding that because I was a repair shop and an enthusiast of the marque that I should be providing these kits at minimal cost to the community for the love of doing this sort of stuff!

In short in English English "On yur bike mate"!
Like running a bus fleet (which I have done in Iraq 3000 units) its all down to budgetry issues. Money in other words. Lovely.

Well I got that off my chest!
Dennis
Linden Engineering Inc
Willis APU and Webasto agents
Gents shut down those idling engines

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:19 pm

Drum brakes work just fine when kept in adjustment, and finding a wrecked TD in Europe for parts would be like finding hens teeth, as well as very expensive

jacksonpinz · Post by **jacksonpinz** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:17 pm

Thanks guys. I guess I am sticking with the drums for now. Maybe I will have a revalation one day and figure it out. As the owner of Alltrans, Inc., I do have a 6000 sq foot building set up for heavy repairs and maintenence on busses and autos. At my disposal I have every possible tool imaginable. I have full metal fabrication capabilities, diagnostic, cutting torches, welders, and much more. I even have a tire peeler and balancer. I am really looking forward to working on the new Pinz. I am really glad these boards are here as you all seem very knowledgable about the Pinzgauer and I might need some help.

BTW- I am very interested in the fuel injection system you are developing. Please keep me informed.

PinzEOD · Post by **PinzEOD** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:32 am

Off Topic

jacksonpinz wrote:<snip> As the owner of Alltrans, Inc., I do have a 6000 sq foot building set up for heavy repairs and maintenence on busses and autos. <snip>

Hmm, sounds like a nice operation...might you be looking for an experienced parts guy?

MarkPinz · Post by **MarkPinz** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:24 am

Believe somebody in the past got with Wilwood to do some disc brake kits? think the price was over $4,000.00 plus using larger diameter wheels to clear the rotors & calipers. Have thought about calling Wilwood have used them for some projects at work. Budgets too tight to really even mess with it thou would go for the EFI kit first

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:06 pm

Willwood calipers are "for off road use only", and all the stub axles that were made were machined wrong, except the prototypes which were re-machined stock parts.
If you were to have an accident with modified brakes using parts sold/labeled off road use only, no insurance company would stand behind you

I worked with this stuff, and solved some of the problems, but overall the drum brakes worked better.
Been there, done that!

so_cal_jimmy · Post by **so_cal_jimmy** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:08 pm

A full disc brake conversion is in existance and in testing stages....all hurdles can be ovecome with the right help...and in the case of r&d the help is money. The kit will be available in eighteen to thirty-six weeks and in a price range of between 4,000.00 and 6,500.00. A six caliper, four piston disc brake assembly exists, dual caliper front, six full size rotors, proportioning valve control. A possible six piston system will be a further step in development, as well as a possible parking brake for the rear. New tires are a requirement due to the goal of using affordable and readily available parts to reduce overall cost. The idea was to adapt a working system to the vehicle, which is much more cost effective than trying to update any of the vehicle systems. The final price is yet to be determined, please leave your thoughts regarding the subject. Picts coming if anyone is interested??????????

Profpinz · Post by **Profpinz** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:32 pm

A number of years ago I looked at using TD 716/718 disc brake components, but it all got too hard and expensive.
It's not just a case of buying and fitting TD discs, but rather you end up with a huge shopping list, (I've detailed the whole process it in a number of posts in the past) but when I looked at it in the cold light of day, I came to the conclusion it's just better all round to buy a TD!

I revisted the problem when I brought the 710-1.6 Pinny, but it was a 4X4 and I'm still two wheels short so once again it's a project that is put on the backburner.

Personally I'm happy to live with the drum brakes (I fully adjusted mine before the last trip and was amazed how well they work... when they are working properly

) especially if kits cost around $4 - 6.5K US...... but I'd love to hear some comparison results when somebody does purchase a kit!

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Wed May 21, 2008 2:56 pm

Jimmy Can you provide some of your company information? Thanks Erik

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:40 pm

Yes, disk brakes can be done . But Anything you do to modify the braking system must be DOT approved if you intend on selling to the public for road use.

Erik712m · Post by **Erik712m** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:50 pm

Jim, hi you are correct but if you use off the shelf parts aren't the parts already dot compliant?

pinzinator · Post by **pinzinator** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:43 pm

Disc brakes are great if heat dissipation is a concern, and you plan to do a lot of stops in a short time. My opinion with the Pinzgauer is the stock braking system is more than adequete to stop the vehicle under most, if not all, conditions. If you feel you need disc brakes due to some unforeseen situation, like high speed effectiveness, perhaps you should take the money you would spend on a conversion and use it as a down payment on an SUV or something similiar. Simplicity and cost-effectiveness being the operative phrase here, let's use common sense in this situation. Most big trucks still use drum brakes, thay can't all be wrong.

Jim LaGuardia · Post by **Jim LaGuardia** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:21 pm

The some of the parts used on a previous conversion were marked not for highway use.
It is a moot point as there are very few owners that would spend that much to upgrade when brake shoes can be economically relined.

Anthony · Post by **Anthony** » Thu May 22, 2008 12:04 pm

Portal tech do a disk brake conversion for the Volvo C300 series and they also use wildwood calipers.

http://portal-tek.com/ down at the bottom of the page. Different fitment of course. their are a number of companies doing them for C300's I do not suppose that the process is that much different. There are also companies doing the same for series landrovers also.

If I could afford them I would fit them much better than drums especially after being dumper in the water or mud which is far worse. The thing is with discs they are reliable all of the time and no wondering if they are going to pull one side or the other. Big Trucks over here are nearly all disc. I do not see them as being complicated any more than drums, easier to service also.

THE PORTAL HUB - Pinzgauers, Haflingers, Volvo 303s and more!

Disk Brakes

Disk Brakes

Off Topic

It can be done...and will be offered soon....