Expedition vehicle: which Pinz is best ?

[Badger]

I've used Land and Range Rovers for many years, initially in the services and latterly as expedition vehicles, primarily in Africa. I'm now contemplating building a new expedition / camper vehicle and, though I originally planned on using an ex-MoD Land Rover 130 Ambulance, I'm now considering a Pinzgauer as an alternative.

After studying various websites, and searching through these fora in particular, the two options that look good to me are the 712 4x4 hard top and the 712 6x6 ambulance. The 4x4 appeals due to its small size and the 6x6 ambulance due to its much larger size - the decision will be swayed depending upon whether I go for a small austere vehicle or opt for a degree of comfort in the larger 6x6 vehicle. At the moment the larger 6x6 vehicle holds the greater attraction, and doesn't seem to carry a price premium over its smaller sibling.

I'd be interested in comments upon a couple of issues that people of referred to on these fora, but which don't seem to have been answered definitively. (Maybe there is no definitive answer...)

1. How noisy is it in the cab of a 712 ? I'm assuming it is akin to the level of noise found in Series Land Rover, and above that level found in the more modern and heavily soundproofed 90 and 110 Rovers.

2. Are the original air cooled petrol engines capable of 15 mpg when the vehicle is heavily laden ?

3. Are there any recognised conversions to diesel engines suitable for these vehicles ? I guess it would be too much to hope that someone, somewhere, has developed a cost effective kit for mounting a modern turbo-diesel engine in the 712.

[psychoman]

Hi Badger

I had pretty much the same debate - lots of years of Landy (and other 4x4 ownership) but wanted something with a good load bed, capable of expedition work. I looked at FC101s and Volvos before setttling for a Pinz 712M (i.e. 6x6, tilt back) as being the most practical, capable and versitile.

Can't answer all your questions, but in terms of noise, it is noisier in the cab than pretty much any 4x4 I've owned - including a SIII Landy. On A and B roads its not too bad, but a few hundred motorway miles at 55mph gets pretty tiring. Noise blankets and so on are available to deaden some of this...

In terms of mph, not done fully laden, but in general use I get 15-20mph, depending on how heavy my right foot is...

BTW - a 710 is a 4x4, a 712 is a 6x6... and generally (in the UK) Ambi backs are cheaper than the tilt and low line hard top versions!

Finally... Am I happy with my choice? So far - yep - not done a big trip with it yet, but overall its a great vehicle - good offroad, 10' load bed and only slightly larger than a Discovery or RangeRover...

[ka]

the cg of a 710m is very noticably higher than that of a 712m due to the diff in number of axles. the cg diff between a 712amb and a 710m is even more noticable. the box on a 712amb is designed to be air-lifted off the vehicle and is therefor stout and has its own floor. that extra floor could be deleted with a sawzall.

i'm looking to sell my 710m and buy a 710k, 712m, 712k, or even a 712amb.

[Badger]

The 712 Ambulance is the vehicle I'm tending towards. Having travelled London to Cape Town, and done several Sahara trips in SWB Series II Rovers and a Classic Ranger Rover, the idea of a larger vehicle with more comfort appeals. I'd look to put a couple of bunks up against the forward bulkhead of the back box and a fridge, cooker, storage cupboards and a shower down the sides. I believe it's possible to stand up easily enough in the central well. In the UK the box might be dismounted from time to time leaving me with a flat bed for off road use and playing with ...


One concern I do have is fuel economy. On some legs of a trans-Saharan trip vehicle range is an issue and so improving mpg is desirable. If I have to carry loads of spare fuel in jerrycans I would rather it be diesel than petrol for safety reasons, as well as the fact that diesel engines give a greater range in the first place.

[ka]

are you allowed to own a 718amb?

[Badger]

I can't think of any reason why not !

[ka]

you are very fortunate. we here in the us have very strick PARANOID parents and are not allowed to have those. i guess "someone could poke an eye out" or something.

[psychoman]

Some of the 712s are fitted with long range tanks already, which must be worth looking into to minimise the Jerry Can issue.

Also may be worth you looking at a 712K... Shropshire Gunbus had anice one... I'll see if I can find it and post a link...

Here you go... http://www.shropshiregunbus.co.uk/item.asp?pid=81

[Badger]

Oh the Nanny State here in the UK is quite tough - they took our guns away years ago - but they still let us have ambulances. The more I look into the more I think that a 712 Ambulance would form the basis of a good expedition vehicle. Plenty of room for two people (Anyone tried seating three in the cab ?)

[Badger]

Shropshire Gunbus seem to have some good vehicles in, they are one of the sites I have been checking out over the past few weeks, but they don't seem to reply to enquiries sent via their website.

The 712K doesn't appeal quite so much - the thing I like about the ambulance is the capability to stand up inside it - or at least in the central well ! From the measurements, it seems I could sleep widthways across it too...

[Jim LaGuardia]

If you want more head room, you need to look at the 712W, it has a box like the amby, but the center is raised and it has sky lights
There is only one I know of here in the U.S., but should be easier to find on your side of the pond.
As for the 716-718's, they only get 15mpg with a 5sp, less with the auto trans, then there is the extra cost as many are still in service. Good ones fetch big$$, and worn out rust buckets are not worth wasting time on.

[Badger]

The 712W is perhaps a little large, and I'm not keen of that many windows in the back box. When travelling there will be no-one in there looking out, and when stationary they are weak points through whick goblins may try to gain entry. I've seen a picture of a 710 Amb, which would be a great option if I do decide to go for a 4x4 rather than a 6x6, but there don't seem to be many about in the UK and with less room in the back I might have to sacrifice a luxury or two ! Does anybody have definitive interior dimensions for the two ambulance backbodies ? I've found some dimensions for the 6x6 interior, be nice to compare it with the box on the 4x4

[ka]

i think you can deduce the dims for the 710amb from the 712amb given the diff between the rear length of the 710m and the 712m.

712amb inside dims (i measured all this and modeled it in solidworks):

66.625 inches wide

64.875 high at the center

52.875 inches high on the sides (over the wheel wells)

119.906 inches deep

1.3125 inch wall thickness

[Jimm391730]

Badger,
I have the 712W that Jim L. was speaking of; with the raised roof it has about 6'1" of headroom, but you have to duck slightly as you go out the door. You'd have to be 5'6" or shorter to stand in an ambulance box. And these boxes are only about 5-1/2' wide, so you would be sorta scrunched up if you slept against the front wall. Too late tonight to go out and measure for you, sorry, but I'm 5'10" and can't hit the ceiling. With the cabinets in the front of the box there is only about 8-1/2' of length left. The skylights are only 6" wide, even if someone broke one they couldn't get inside.

Outside it is 9' tall. I've driven it over 2100 miles at a stretch but noise canceling headphones are a must, also comfy seats! Then it is not too bad at all, I've easily done 10-12 hours at a stretch. Mine tends to get about 12mpg. I prefer a 712 in most situations as the rear axles smooth out the bumps wonderfully, especially with the weight of the box on it.



Best of luck with your plans.

Jim Mettler
712W and 710M

[ScottishPinz]

Badger you are doing the right thing, looking at all the options, asking lots of questions, but you really need to see and sit in one of these vehicles.

Unless you are very short (I'm 197cm that's 6'5") you will neither stand in or sleep across the width of any Pinzgauer.

Petrol v diesel is more about purchase cost and availability, if you want a diesel start saving and buy quick when you see one for sale as there are few around. The fuel consumption is not much better in the diesel so while you are paying UK fuel prices it will work out the same for fuel.

I have a 4x4 710k that has been round Europe last year and Iceland this year, you would be welcome to see the truck and see my solutions to expedition use. I have never seen two converted trucks the same!

Finally Dale at Haflinger Technik is the person to talk to regarding purchase, he usually has vehicles in stock, WILL answer your enquiries and will always help you out as a Pinzgauer owner.