General Questions about Pinzgauer's

[Quinn]

I am interested in purchasing a Pinzgauer as a weekend recreational toy (mostly driving around the beach cities with occasional off roading). However, due to my lack of technical expertise, I was hoping someone would be able to answer a few questions for me.

1) Are the 710/712 models safe to drive at 60-65 MPH on the highway?
2) Do these vehicles roll easily?
3) Does the vehicle stop well?
4) How difficult is it to find replacement parts?
5) Other than Craigslist or eBay, are there other good websites that typically advertise these trucks for sale?

Thank you in advance for answering my questions.

Best regards,

Quinn

[StuartL]

I'm sure you'll get plenty of replies, I'll try to get in there first

1) Are the 710/712 models safe to drive at 60-65 MPH on the highway?

Define 'safe'. At 60mph there's a LOT of noise. Most people seem comfortable at 50mph, I personally do about 45mph. I couldn't conceive doing 60-65 without ear protection.

Apart from the noise, though, they're surprisingly stable. Remember that it's 1960s drum brakes and 1960s suspension design and you'll be fine.

2) Do these vehicles roll easily?

They roll about 40 degrees off the vertical. Off road that's pretty easy to find but you drive around it. On road it's no sports car and you need to respect it when cornering.

3) Does the vehicle stop well?

Not really, the drum brakes are good for drum brakes but they're not discs. Add to that that even sealed they will take in water/mud and this degrades performance.

If you're sensible you will be absolutely fine and you'll wonder what you worried about. If you want to be able to stop on a dime you need another vehicle.

4) How difficult is it to find replacement parts?

Difficulty isn't the issue, it's the cost. The parts are readily available but they are expensive. This is offset by the fact that generally things don't break.

5) Other than Craigslist or eBay, are there other good websites that typically advertise these trucks for sale?

www.milweb.net is popular in the UK, there's also several dedicated importers/distributors around the world. Expedition Imports (a forum sponsor) are one of the larger ones in the US.

[Quinn]

Thanks for providing your input Stuart! This is exactly the feedback I was hoping to receive. I previously owned a 1947 Jeep Willy....sounds like the Pinz's performance is better across the board.

On a side note, I found a 710 for $12.5K near my house. Hopefully, it's in good shape.

Quinn

[edzz]

Quinn, if you add your location to your profile you may receive more localized information.

Remember for most people this is not a vehicle that most would want to buy in fixer-up condition. Buying a Pinzgauer in the best mechanical condition you can find will likely save you much more down the trail (road, whatever) than a fixer-up truck.

As far as performance as compared to a Jeep Willys, try putting a ton of stuff (and by that I mean a metric ton) in a jeep and see how far you get before something snaps.

[4x4Pinz]

I always take exception to people who say parts cost alot. The big difference is that you can not go to Auto Zone, Checker auto ..... for most of the parts. If you had a regular chevy, ford ..... vehicle and had to go to the dealer every time you needed parts you would find out just which vehicle has more expensive parts. You think a pinz starter is expensive, try one for a 2010 chevy 2500 truck.

brakes are on par for 60's 70's technology, not as good as modern disc but there is no electronic brake control to be recalled either.

It is an older designed vehicle and pretty much on par with any other vehicle of its time.

One thing you get with a pinz in "uniqueness" this can not be bought at any price, must be why so many of us own at least one.

[StuartL]

I always take exception to people who say parts cost alot. The big difference is that you can not go to Auto Zone, Checker auto ..... for most of the parts. If you had a regular chevy, ford ..... vehicle and had to go to the dealer every time you needed parts you would find out just which vehicle has more expensive parts. You think a pinz starter is expensive, try one for a 2010 chevy 2500 truck.

In the UK, compared to parts for a Ford, Vauxhall (GM), Toyota, etc, the parts are expensive. Used parts are about as much as new ones because of the rocking-horse problem. Compared to running a 1990s Ford Sierra the parts are expensive. Compared to running a 1940s Dodge or a 2010 Chevy you're undoubtedly correct. The 1940s one because of the same rareity issue, the 2010 one because the manufacturers are now making most of their profit on repairs and parts.

I'd also like to ensure I'm being quite clear that when I say the parts are expensive I don't mean to put anyone off by that, only prepare that in the event of one of the rare failures the parts, rebuild kits, etc can cost a bit and you should be ready. Over the course of several years ownership it's probably about as expensive to own as any other vehicle because it doesn't really go wrong.

It does seem more cost effective to go after-market but for those trying to keep their truck standard that might not be an option.

[Jimm391730]

Hi Quinn,

Stuart did a good job answering your questions, but I'll add (mostly supurfluous) infomation:

1) Are the 710/712 models safe to drive at 60-65 MPH on the highway?

I do 60-65 ALL THE TIME on the highway; just don't tailgate. Since most traffic will easily be going faster then me, I just sail down the slow lane with a big smile on my face. Between my two trucks I've done over 75,000 miles combined and been from Vermont to California with one. With comfy (aftermarket) seats and earplugs/headphones I can go for 10 hours a day.

2) Do these vehicles roll easily?

I've been offroad in a 710M with 9 people in it and I'll swear we were on a 45 degree sideslope without rolling. Of course that was at a very low speed. I'll stick my neck out here and say that I've taken my 710M on windy mountain roads and if I push it too hard I'll actually lift the inside reat tire; I suppose that I could push it to roll but you'd really know why it did! It is suprisingly stable in this regard, though it doesn't look like it.

3) Does the vehicle stop well?

Leave space between you and the vehicle in front of you and you won't have to stop fast. It stops appropriately for its age, but if a deer jumps in front of you, just expect to hit it!

4) How difficult is it to find replacement parts?

Not hard at all, though you will be ordering them.

I bought one to use for other hobbies, now the Pinz is a hobby of its own!

[Quinn]

Thanks again to everyone who offered their personal insight. It might take me a while but as soon as I pick up my Pinz, I'll post a few pictures.

Quinn

[krick3tt]

Quinn,

I just returned from a journey to NWMF in OR. The trip was 3274 round trip miles per my GPS. Other than the fact that I need to adjust the brakes,
(and I have installed after market seats) there were no real problems. I have made the same distance with stock seats...really don't recommend that.

I travel at about 50 mph, about 3100 rpm per the tach. Faster down hill and slower up. Hardly ever go 60, just too noisy.

I will probably keep my trips to under 500 miles in the future.

edit: Stay to the right and use your flashers when going slower uphill. Watch the truckers, they are your best indicators of how to do this.

Happy trails,
Morris

[Quinn]

Thanks for providing additional context Morris! It's reassuring to hear that others successfully drive on the freeway at speeds between 50-55 MPH.

[totaljoint]

I know this has been discussed before, and there are those who will disagree.
I first drove a 710, it felt "squirrly" on the highway, and the tail end was very light. I wouldn't want to brake
hard and expect to remain in controll. Then I drove the 712 on a winding road, after the 710 experience, it handled like a sports car.
Ok, not the acceleraton, just the cornering.

I added the cage for passenger protection. I believe that at one time there was a Pinzgauer site with pictures of Pinzgauers which had been in collisions, it left an impression on this father of 3 sons. I wanted some side and front end armor. Ditto the gas tank.

I had to do an emergency highway stop a couple of months ago at about 55-58mph. Locked up all six wheels. I was surprised at how straight it tracked and that I could maintain control. Surprised also how quickly six immovable tires with 1976 drum brakes can stop 3 tons. Makes about 50% more tire squealing noise than a 4 wheeler too. Good thing I left plenty of room behind the guy in front of me.
I've gone back to my 1970's high school driving instructions: look a few cars ahead of you at all times and leave one 712's length for each 10mph of speed.

Now try doing that on I-5 and see how many Honda's cut in front of you!
Any one know where I can get a Calvin and Hobb's rear window sticker of the little boy pissing on a "Prius"?

[StuartL]

I know this has been discussed before, and there are those who will disagree.
I first drove a 710, it felt "squirrly" on the highway, and the tail end was very light. I wouldn't want to brake
hard and expect to remain in controll. Then I drove the 712 on a winding road, after the 710 experience, it handled like a sports car.
Ok, not the acceleraton, just the cornering.

My 710 used to be squirrely on the road too, especially under braking.

I solved this with a simple modification. I now carry 250kg of sand in the back and all the tools, spare wheels, recovery gear etc out of my garage. I reckon there's about half a metric tonne in the back.

Seems to improve the nose-heavy issue significantly but it does affect fuel mileage.

[psychoman]

I'd agree with most of the comments above and only add this as I've had a fair amount of experience of older 4x4s of pretty much all makes...

I find the 712 a solid little truck, well built, reliable, handles and drives okay on the roads for what it is, excellent offroad, good load bed for a vehicle that's only the size of most SUVs (10 x 5 load bed!), great fun and good freak-factor being a 6x6.

Downsides - expensive to buy in the first place, heavy on fuel for a vehicle under 3 tonnes, noisy at anything over 50mph for lengthy periods of time, relatively expensive on parts (though the points above are well made, re comparable costs), only a 2 seater up front.

Bottomline - great fun to own and probably better than most comparable vehicles of the same era (70s and eary 80s) but its not a modern SUV/truck and you shouldn't expect it to perform as one.

[totaljoint]

only a 2 seater up front

After the fun factor has gone, non of my kids want to ride in the back for any distance (like to the end of the driveway).
Drives to the mountains are now met with groans and "I'll stay home". I put in a 6 place intercom system, never use the rear headphones anymore.

Though it has 6 seatbelts in the back, 99% of the time my 712 is a two seater. The other 1% it's a group wagon to the local micro-brewery for the occasional misery sharing after work.

[krick3tt]

Ed,

Don't feel too bad, my wife said she will NEVER ride in my pinz again. Truly though, after almost 1600 miles on the way back from
NWMF in 104 degree heat along highway 140 to NV 80, I do not blame her. I never want to do that again either. I think she was a
real trooper to endure the trip. The last night we did stay in a Motel 6 with a shower and real bed and at dinner she confessed that
she entertained thoughts of how to kill me and not leave any evidence.

edit: Oh yeah, she flew to Portland and I met her there for the event and the return trip. She is no city slicker, that one.

Needles to say she is not going with me on my trip to Moab and Grand Canyon in October...I'm gonna miss her.

Happy trails,
Morris