Brake Job

[PINZDKH]

Just finished up a major brake job on my 710M.
- New master cylinder from SAV.
- All new wheel cylinders from SAV.
- Cleaned, bead blasted all reused components.
- Relined all shoes with woven pad material from local clutch/brake company. (Only $15.20 per shoe!)
- Flushed and purged all lines.

End result: Vehicle now stops like a BOSS.
Only issue - had grown accustomed to "pumping up" the brakes to get it to stop - having to break that habit!
Only had one operational brake wheel - the front right... was a potential disaster waiting to happen.

[Jimm391730]

had grown accustomed to "pumping up" the brakes

This means the brakes need adjustment; too much clearance between the shoe and the drum. 70-80% of the "slop" comes from the front axle. I adjust the rears about every other time I adjust the fronts.

[PINZDKH]

Usually I would agree with that comment about the shoes being too far from the drum... However, mine were NOT adjustable as the old wheel cylinders were beyond extremely corroded and they were completely frozen and simply did not function. The adjusters wouldn't move either. Applying the brakes with the drums off did not produce any movement at the wheel cylinders (other than the front passenger wheel). They would not compress or extend... Totally shot. My front right wheel was the only operational brake. Back right wheel cylinder wouldn't even let brake fluid through -- even with the bleeder bolt completely removed. It took a hell of a lot of cleaning on all the components -- retaining springs, adjusters, etc. The wheel cylinders were just junk.

[undysworld]

Gotta agree with Jimmi here. If pumping the pedal helped, then the shoes were adjusted too far away from the drum, at least on your right front.

If all the slave cylinders were truly seized, no amount of pumping would apply any brakes whatsoever.

[TechMOGogy]

Pumping perhaps just got the front right to work
Dangerous for sure regardless
I always make sure my vehicle stops perfectly before I worry about if it runs or not

[PINZDKH]

The front right was out of adjustment but it did work (although the adjusters didn't).
It all works now. I would rather take the Pinz camping with one brake wheel instead of canceling my trip to work on the brakes. Lots of irons in the fire around here. Was it a risk based decision... You bet... Just like having some beers and driving... Some do, some don't.

[Jimm391730]

Wow, now THAT is a brake job. With so much as shot as it was, its a good thing that you get it all replaced/refurbished and back to proper operation.

I was not trying to take anything away from the job that you did, just pointing out (for those that might not know) that adjusting the brakes through the expected, operable adjusters will remove the need for "pumping". And as the Pinz brakes do not self adjust, this will need to be done once or twice a year depending on the miles you put on it. I adjust mine when I get to the point that pumping seems necessary, but not before that point. Now you can put this on your list of things to do! Keep up the good repair work.

[PINZDKH]

Jim-

I was scratching my head when I first pulled a drum -- then I realized it didn't have the automatic "star" adjusters I'm accustomed to on drum brakes. The service manual "recommends" adjusting the shoes prior to bleeding the system -- as you pointed out, it should be mandatory since they don't self adjust. All that being said, this thing (now) stops like it dropped anchor. It can be a little aggravating at times but it's really a well engineered and fun machine!

[MACH]

I just had the same problem, it turned out to be the drum (it was slightly oval, not perfectly round), check them out.

[PINZDKH]

Drums were fine. It's 100% now.

[dadnova]

What technique or method do you use to adjust the brakes, both front and rear??

[undysworld]

Should be in the manual. Pull the wheel, tighten down the drum, pull the access plug, tighten adjuster screw until drum stops, back off 3 clicks, IIRC. Fronts have two adjusters per drum, one w/ reverse threads on adjuster screw (FR, IIRC). 712, one click less on ctr axle. Reassemble.

[Jimm391730]

As Undysworld said, be SURE to put two lug nuts back on to hold the drum TIGHT before doing the adjustments. The first time I adjusted my brakes I did not do this, got into town and had one dragging so much that it locked up. Not so funny being stuck in a store parking lot without being able to move. So I removed the wheel to find that I couldn't turn the drum to align with the adjusters and fix it! I was really stuck... 'til I realized it was one of the rears, and in a 712 the drum won't touch the ground without a wheel. So I was able to just creep in low range until the adjuster showed in the opening, THEN I was able to release it. Whew. Had it been the fronts or any on a 710 and I would not have been a happy camper, that would have been a lot more effort.

[Texas710]

Is backing off 3 clicks the consensus?

I just did my brakes and everything I have recommended 5 clicks back. The manual is a little vague on that, the PO has a binder of printouts from maybe goatwerk's site and that was what was recommended? I have a 710M, not sure if that matters...

I have tested it and the brakes seem fine, not really different from before the job, I mean what is the difference between 2 clicks, a few mm?

Thanks

[Jimm391730]

The manual recommends 3 clicks; a bit of wear and they are 5 clicks loose. But it doesn't take much wear until pumping is needed (maybe 6-8 clicks of adjustment back to 3 clicks loose? I haven't really counted) so 5 clicks just means you might need to adjust more often to have the "proper" braking performance. Yes, pumping works, but in a panic situation you may not have TIME to put in another pump to get stopped... do you really want to be in that position? Adjust the brakes when you begin to feel the need to pump, be safe. 5 clicks works, you'll just need to do it more often.