New Member and potential new Pinz owner-just a few concerns.

[nacademus]

Hey all.

For a couple years or so, I've somewhat coveted the idea of having a Pinzgauer. I currently own a M1008 and enjoy it greatly. I always peeped at auctions online for the random postings of a Pinz here and there, but most of those seem to be less than complete-and sourcing through an importer was not something that I could financially bring myself to do. I mean, I could if I really wanted to, but I wouldn't find enough utility to justify the initial cost. The area that I live is leaves much to be desired in terms of off-roading (Northern Ohio) and overall exploring, which is what I hoped to do with a Pinzgauer...camp, explore, enjoy a few trails, just have fun driving it around, etc.

I know a guy who has owned a Pinz for 15 years or so and came to me about perhaps purchasing it. It is a 1975 710M.

He said that its been sitting for about 10 years of so, but its under a totally covered car port outside.

I had a chance to stop by and take a look at it.

The body appears to be in fantastic shape. A little rust on the edges of things, but overall, I am quite happy with it. It looks as though the body was completely replaced at one time. I can't believe something of this age has so little rust. BUT, I know to attribute that to the galvanization.

I was unable to hear it run since the carbs leak. It cranks over well and seems healthy while cranking... if that means anything. The engine looks clean and I don't see any seals weeping or any sign of abuse. It actually looks pretty good. I don't remember what the odometer said exactly, but he did say it had around 30,000 km on it.

The dash was clean, the levers moved well, seats were in good condition, floorboards were really clean (I didn't take the diamond plate off the flood, but around it looks pretty much flawless).

I am unable to drive it even if it ran because he said that a wheel cylinder may be leaking and his brake fluid level is dropping in the reservoir.

He also said that the tail lights are intermittent and may need some wiring done on them.

Tires are original Maloyas with descent tread. Levers on dashboard all move properly and don't bind. I moved them gently.

I would like to buy it, but I have a couple concerns with this vehicle and was hoping that maybe a post here with some photos could really help me decide.

Above the driver's head, the canvas has a small spot where it is worn and he said water can come in. I saw it. Its the size of a dime and its not even really a even a hole. I think that maybe a Bimini repair kit could fix that up... or maybe just some sort of resin patch. I'm not really concerned about appearances too much so long as I can make it workable. I appreciate the truck for what it is.

There is another thin area at the rear of the truck as well-over the cargo area. Again, its small. The plastic windows are hazed over and there is a cut in one of them at the rear that makes a 3" hole. I think I could patch these issues, but would certainly want to do it right. I would research that when/if I bought it.

Underneath is where my real concerns start to visualize.

I can see that all 4 axle boots have cuts and I can see oil seepage from the boots. This may indicate a worn seal oring, right? It could even just be from sitting. He said it never left any oil drips or anything from what he could recall, and I couldn't find any evidence of dripping on the ground myself. Again, all 4. The front steering pivot surfaces aren't pitted, at all, like I've seen in some PInzgauer photos.



There is some wetness or seeping between the cases that caught my eye. Again, I am unsure if I should worry about that or just chock it up with sitting for 10+ years. I also see some wetness at the slave cylinder... unsure as to what that could be from.




He said his brake reservoir was losing fluid level and though that a wheel cylinder was to blame. However he never really traced that out to verify. I can see leakage between the booster and master cylinder. He said that he didn't lose braking ability so long as it was full. Maybe its just loosing fluid at the booster? Other than that, it doesn't look took bad under the dash. I asked if that brake line was newer or replaces and he didn't know. He was the first owner in the US aside from an importer.



Here is the only photo of the floor area I snapped with my phone. This is the center area. Its not that great, buts its the best of the diamond plate that I have.




It has been sitting 14 years and had old OLD motor oil and gear oil in it. Never changed more than once-the month he brought it home. Only drove it 200 miles or so since he;s owned it, he said.

It has all the tools and chains. The jerrycan. He upgraded the ignition with a Pertronix unit. It has new batteries. Apart from that, I don't know what else I could say about it.

What do you think an honest offer for this vehicle is? He told me what he wanted, then did the whole "but for you $XXXX". He is a really great guy and spent well over an hour just fielding my questions and talking to me about it. I don't think he was trying to hide anything from me or slight me. Before I left he asked me what I would offer, and that he knew that what he said he'd sell it to me for was out of the question or not as reasonable since he couldn't get it running and I couldn't test drive it. He apologized for that and asked me if I was still interested to make an offer as is, but I couldn't just yet.

He said he will include all the books with it-repair manuals (3-4 of them, in print), and some other odds and ends stuff he has for it, tools and what not.

It has the importation paperwork and was titled, so I don't think that's an issue. He said insuring the Pinz wasn't hard at all.

I'm sorry I wrote a book but I hope that someone chimes in to give me some pointers or even just their thoughts on the matter. I'd really like to have it... but I am afraid of a lot of upfront maintenance costs. I KNOW that a whole lot of parts are available and the prices aren't too too bad. A few items that concern me, namely the carbs and the wipe oring aren't cheap, though. I just want to have some fun with it, maybe enjoy the summer off in the woods somewhere, or just have fun putting around town.

At the very least, I could get it at a good price, fix it up and enjoy it a summer or two and just sell it. I don't want to be upside down though. I have the tendency to hold on to my toys though.

Oh, and my girlfriend thinks its cute... so that really caught me off guard. Everyone I know thinks I ought to go for it. Good vibes certainly help.

Thank you so much for your time!!

[TechMOGogy]

Hey - welcome to the board. From the pictures it looks like a nice truck.
You state it has been sitting for 10 years and then say 14 years?
Guy only drove it for 200 miles and it has been sitting for xx years but has new batteries??
A few things to check up on.
I would just say - it is coming up on 40 years old and has sat for 10-14 of those years. There is going to be up front costs to get it running.
If title is there and clear then make him a offer but I would count on replacing a few seals (some will swell up once you get it running perhaps), boots, brakes and carbs and suck that off your offer price.
Perhaps post a rough idea of what he was asking and then we could be more helpful
Cheers,
Dan

[audiocontr]

Whats the asking price? No point in walking down the list if he is asking too much to begin with. Where is it located?

[nacademus]

Sorry if I was clear as mud on that. lol

He has owned the vehicle for 14 years... it has been sitting, untouched, the past 10 years.

During those 4 years that it WASN'T sitting, he put his 200 miles on it. But... 50 miles a year is essentially sitting, as far as I'm concerned.

He purchased the batteries this year and stored them in his garage since he was going to muster up the will to sell it.

He wants $9000 for it. He said he'd let me have it for $8000, but I'm thinking that $8000 may be quite high-considering I would not be able to start or drive it to decide on that or not. He even admitted that $8000 could be optimistic on his part... I just don't know. I don't want to hemorrhage too much money post sale, but I really don't want to offend him and lowball him to account for what I may spend afterward. I need some headroom though. I was probably going to offer $6500, maybe $7000 cash but only because I can't test it. Who knows, he might humor less to get it out of his yard. I don't really expect to get it for a song.

He's not hurting for money. Its really just happenstance that I learned about it. Word of my affection for MVs made its way through the work grapevine and the girl he's dating (who I work with) asked me about whether or not I'd be interested in it and he's offering it to me primo. I've done some side-jobs for him in the past and we've spent hours just BSing here and there. Again, he's a great person and I appreciate the opportunity to perhaps own my very own Pinzgauer, especially through a no pressure, reasonable, understanding business accord. Maybe these things happen like this because they are meant to be, who knows. How often does someone who likes Pinzgauers just get offered a Pinzgauer without ever even uttering the name at work? Crazy.

I'm no stranger to how things age and the work it does on seals. I couldn't see any evidence of leaking anywhere on the engine, but underneath, you see a little seeping. The fact that the oil in it is 15 years old is no good, but it has such low mileage on it, what does it matter so long as its clean (and not acidic). And, it was dark when I checked the dipstick-but this is an air-cooled engine. It was nowhere near as dark as my diesel. HAHA.

[audiocontr]

Not worth $8k as is. Its more in the $4-6k range. Personally, I would not take it on as a first Pinz. There are better 710s out there with a better understanding of the condition.

[nacademus]

Not worth $8k as is. Its more in the $4-6k range. Personally, I would not take it on as a first Pinz. There are better 710s out there with a better understanding of the condition.

This is a good point. As a first, it could be too much for me. However, I've worked on plenty of things in my life and so long as I have a manual and access to tools, I'll be golden.

$4k-6k you say? Hmm. That makes sense. I am unable to drive it... unable to stop it, unable to start it, unable to tell what all is wrong with it since I can't let it get warm and observe. Who knows? Maybe there is a BIG reason why its sitting. Dang it. Whenever I think about going to get the money for it, I get really nervous. I am completely uncertain of whether or not this would turn out to be exactly what I want, or a bomb waiting to go off.

I had a Ducati 748 at one time. I wanted a Duc so bad and this one was in my area. I had the money so I went and listened to it, fell in love, and bought it. I found out later that I paid more money than I should have, didn't check for issues that I should have, and it cost me more money down the road than it should have on account of my foreignness to the breed.

I am quite mechanical, believe me. It's never an issue when it comes to wrenching, in fact, I find it to be soothing and helps keep depression away when my mind and hands are busy. I loved that Duc, but it needed a lot of work. My opening rockers were flaking badly-something that is well known on certain 748s and something that I didn't check when I was looking it over. Had I just removed a valve cover and looked, I could have saved myself some heartache. I essentially rebuilt that whole bike, and when I was done, I bought another engine to put in it and upped it to 996. Even though I was upside down on it when I sold it, it was a great journey. I miss that bike. It was my dream to race it.

I don't want to get burned on a Pinzgauer, though. lol

Its a lot harder to hide in the garage haha!

[4x4Pinz]

my advice to any pinz owner wanting to sell their truck is to get it up and running to a point where it could be driven for at least 6 months without any major work. That is the only way you will get any where near market price. Anything less is as stated above just a $4 to $6K truck. Any more than that would just be foolish regardless of how well you know the person. Lots of great options at $10k that could be driven for years without issue and a truck like that could easily eat up $4k just to get things sorted out. You could get lucky and do the work yourself and only have to put in $2K to have a good truck but that is a gamble I would not take.

[TechMOGogy]

There are things you can do
Like you said... take a day and go over it, remove the valve cover, do a compression test, pull the oil pan etc etc
Go over it witha fine tooth comb, mechanical, electrical and so on.
Then if all looks good offer the guy $ and if he had any issues or reservations just ask him to bring the truck up to running condition. Sometimes people just want to get rid of stuff vs dumping more $ into it (even if there would be more $ once fixed up).
Hopefully it turns out and your become a regular member here!
Also...fill out your location so we know where your located
Cheers,

[mopar]

Yeah I'd say if it was in good running condition 9,000 with minor fixes such as lights or tires. But for a non running truck $4,500-6,000. And your the one taking on the risk and that is why I'd start lower. Just look around and you will find some real decent ones in the 10-12,000 range. Fixer uppers are bargains for those willing to do the work and make it a good runner. This truck may very well be a diamond in the rough but you have a good list of things to sort out and point that out to the guy as well as the fact that the longer it sits the worse the condition deteriorates. My opinion is it is as close to an umolested swiss import as you'll find since he didn't drive it much so it most likely won't have been submarined or bashed through the forest gear all banged up inside. So I would consider it . Both my Pinz I've had had had work to be done to them. Most of this is due to prior owners or from sitting. But once I got them going and sorted out, they were a blast and great trucks but it took some work and $$ to get them that way so I could enjoy them. The Pinz is easy to work on for minor things and is very simple in that regard plus there is a whole lotta help and experience on this forum to guide you. The search function will be your biggest asset!!!

[landy]

All good advice. Although the body looks nice on that one, buying a non-running one could be full of expensive, unpleasant surprises. With some patience, you can find a running 710M in decent shape for $8-$9k.

[undysworld]

With the oil seepage and torn/leaky boots, I'd want to check out the drive train carefully. It's hard to imagine it's been maintained, given your description of the P.O. I'd want to check transmission and xfer case fluid. Open diff and wheel drive boxes and see what they look like inside - full or empty, etc.

This is what you want to avoid buying: http://www.real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerB ... =13&t=7428

Small weeps are okay to ignore, as long as you tend the fluid level. But anything major in the drive train could be prohibitively expensive.

If you find no major issues with the drive train, I'd agree with the 4-6k price mentioned above. Any big issues there, and it's a candidate for a "parts" truck, IMHO.

[TechMOGogy]

Could be the classic...
"...it is in great shape - I only went off-roading once!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dy9BKEoCLo

[edzz]

look here
http://www.sdp-pinzgauer.org/html/pre-p ... klist.html

[mopar]

With the oil seepage and torn/leaky boots, I'd want to check out the drive train carefully. It's hard to imagine it's been maintained, given your description of the P.O. I'd want to check transmission and xfer case fluid. Open diff and wheel drive boxes and see what they look like inside - full or empty, etc.

It most likely hasn't been maintained but most likely hasn't been abused if the PO only drove it 200 miles in 14 years. I'd tow it home go through and change all fluid before doing any starting running or driving. Drain the gas tank( nice big drain on the bottom) drain the carbs tighten up the bases if that was what was leaking and maybe why it sat. I'd flush the brakes and hydraulic lockers and put new plugs civilian ignition and petronix on it. You'd be surprised how easy these are to get going. Especially if they haven't been molested by a prior owner If the gas in it was 10 years old it most likely was ethanol free and just evaporated with out screwing the carbs up too bad. I'd run some seafoam through it also.